and yet if you read this book, you have to conclude that we are not intelligently assessing the islamist threat to this country. now, all of that having been said, what are we doing wrong? >> well, fred, look. number one -- first of all, thanks for being here and taking the time to do this. number one, we cannot identify the enemy. terrorism is only a tactic. there is a well defined, well established ideology that motivates the terrorism. i describe in the book, fred, i have sat down with al-qaeda-linked terrorists face to face, associates of osama bin laden who have told me we're not doing this because of poverty, not because of the israeli/palestinian conflict. we are doing this because islam's core texts command us to do it. now, that's very politically incorrect, but this is no time to mince words, fred, as you know. and this is not me saying it, it's the bad guys saying this themselves. we should, in this case at

least, we should heed their words. .. >> but what it has always been is a deep commitment to islam and from what i can tell, strict islam, shari'a law. shari'a law, as you define it -- >> guest: well, let them ask you, you do a great description of what shari'a is. why don't you tell us what shari'a law is and what it undermines all the ideology you were talking about. >> guest: shari'a, and this is the fundamental thing to

remember here. shari'a is inherently incompatible with the u.s. constitution. >> host: no that's what faisal the grand imam of ground zero who was somewhat demoted. if you've got people who say shari'a law is compatible with the u.s. constitution, tell us about it. >> guest: this is an all encompassing ideological system that controls every aspect of a muslim's life. and if they had their way, it would also control every aspect of a non-muslim's life. shari'a, no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, women's rights out the window. gays, no rights at all. stoned to death under a shari'a society. jews and christians, second class citizens. that's only the beginning. there's a mandate to wage violent jihad. jihad not a spiritual journey

but jihad as a violent ideology of conquest. this is all mandated under shari'a law. >> host: okay, if that's true and they are telling us that they are following a strict adherence to a religion that they all believe mandates shari'a law, and adherence to shari'a law, then why -- when you talk about this in the book as well. why does our government, and why does most of our media look at somebody like nidal hasan or faisal shahzad, why are they lone wolfs. why do we continue that they and i love this term they are self-radicalized. >> guest: the cases you mentioned, fred, they are all part of a broader global ideology movement. the subtitle of the book is "how the government is deceiving you about the islamist threat" and to frame these guys as just lone

extremists which in every case be it the fort hood, or the christmas underwear bomber or the times square bomber and the obama administration frames them as lone wolves, lone extremists no connection to a broader movement where we had the faisal shahzad, the fort hood shooter exchanging emails with the leader of yemen. we had the underwear bomber trained in yemen. we had the times square bomber inspired by them and had trained with the taliban in pakistan. yes, there are broader links but there are a few things at work here. number 1 a crippling political correctness, absolutely crippling. i think another thing, quite frankly, is that it's very difficult -- say that islam is not a religion of peace. say shari'a is a threat, that's a very difficult thing to come to grips with because that means you're at good with a good slice

of the muslim population who does follow muslim fundamentally. who does follow shari'a to the t. that's a scary thing to admit for our government. >> host: and i want to go back to that because no less a person than george bush right after 9/11 said islam is a religion of peace. right after the young comes vo radical muslim walked into the airport in frankfurt and shot a couple of american soldiers, barack obama said one of the islam is one of the world's great religions. my sense we want to believe that because we are a tolerant people. but you've got quotes in this book from several known terrorists and conspirators and collaborators say no, it's not. it's about submission. it's about jihad. if we do not believe their own words, how are we ever going to understand the threat? >> guest: we can't, fred. and that's the bottom line. look, we're starting off very politically incorrect off the

bat. i like it. >> host: we got nowhere to go but down. [laughter] >> host: or out. >> guest: look, if you're an intellectually honest person, you cannot look at the koran islam's cortex, any intellectual honest person cannot look at them and say they espouse a religion of peace. any intellectually honest person can't look at the example of islam's prophet mohammed and say that he was a man of peace and that he espoused peace. look at islam's history, current, older, this is not a religion of peace and it's intellectual dishonest to say that it is. >> host: but let me ask you this because the term that crops up in this discussion somewhere is moderate muslim. >> guest: right. >> host: or if you prefer, personal jihad. and i want to go to a couple of people that you quote in this book, john brennan's the preds's chief advisor and james clapper who's the director of national intelligence. clapper said in front of congress, muslim brotherhood

secular organization, kind of like the kiwanis club, they jihad is like a personal struggle. now as you've interviewed people, as you've studied this, if you take the average muslim immigrant to this country, do they believe that? or are they inclined to be strict adherence to shari'a which says jihad is not a personal struggle. as global struggle for dominance and it's not achieved until people of the book, christians and jews, and other nonbelievers are either submitting to us or are dead. >> guest: fred not every muslim believes that, thank god. i've worked with many muslims here in washington, d.c., who don't want jihad. don't want shari'a and they are truly moderate but, look, polls show and i point them out in the book, that some 13 -- this is a pew research poll, some 13% of

american muslims support suicide bombings in some shape or form. that number rises to 26% when we're talking about young american muslims. that's very problematic to say the least and if you estimate that 10 to 15% of the world's muslims which credible estimates have shown time and time again, 10 to 15% are radicalized, do follow the osama bin laden brand of islam, that's roughly 157 muslims. that's very problematic. moderate muslims in my experience, and god bless them, they're brave and i've worked with them but many times the moderates, the genuine muslim moderates are muslims who do not follow shari'a. they don't follow the koran, the hadith fundamentally to the t. i believe, fred, if you follow islam fundamentally, if you follow islam's cortex to the t, fundamentally you cannot be moderate because they are not moderate text. >> host: let's take a random

example. you talk quite a bit about the somali communities in minneapolis and st. paul, growing which has now been proven to be actively recruiting young somali men to work for al-shabaab, a somalia terrorist organization and if you're a member of a mosque in the twin cities and you just believe what you just espoused, i'm going to take my faith and kind of hold it at arm's length, are you not an apostate? is that not a tough case to make in those mosque and in these enclave communities in many other places that you talk about here? how do you hold that view publicly and espouse it to others without some kind of reprisal from the religious infrastructure that you're part of? >> guest: fred, that's a great point and as you said, you do so at great personal risk. in the book, i outline several cases of genuine muslim

moderates who are not only outcasts in their community but were physically threatened. one brave individual named jamil mifta in tulsa, oklahoma, of all places, fred, the heartland, tulsa, al-qaeda carried out a new attack. this was 2007, i believe where they released a new videotape threatening bloodshed, mifta was outraged. he said these people are giving muslims a bad name and the next day he wrote a editorial in the tulsa world newspaper condemning al-qaeda saying they distorted islam. well, the very next day he went to his local mosque, a large islamic center in tulsa. the largest in tulsa. he was confronted not only by average worshippers but the mosque's leadership, physically confronted him and threatened him, called him a traitor because he wrote an op-ed condemning al-qaeda. he literally feared for his life. this is in the american heartland. that gives you an idea of what truly peace-loving muslims are up against when they do speak

out. >> host: all right. i'm glad you broke up the whole question of mosques because -- and this is another figure that just jumped out in this book. since about 2000 or 2001, we've gone from, i think, 1200 mosques to about 2,000. the number of these religious sanctuaries is proliferating around this country at an enormous rate. in your view, are these legitimate religious sanctuaries or are they battalions as they are actually described in some of the islamic writings that were uncovered at the holy land foundation trial and i even know the prime minister of turkey had a poem that he used to quote before he became a legitimate -- >> guest: president obama is close friends. >> host: a great friend but mosques are battalions. which is it? are these now a place where a moderate muslim can either be

brought into the fold and become a potential terrorist or somebody like carl owes bledsoe can be inculcated, radicalized and turned on his own family and country? >> guest: fred, absolutely, look, in the book i describe how i have been in mosques from coast-to-coast, in america and europe, i've been in the mosques i've interviewed the imams. i'm not just sitting here in air conditioning in dc. i'm on the ground these are my firsthand experiences and experiences. far too many times in american mosques which by the way it's estimated that some 80% of american mosques have saudi funding behind them, very problematic because saudi arabia is the epicenter of this global jihadist strain. 15 of the 19 9/11 highjackers and they are building mosques coast-to-coast even though we can't build a church in saudi arabia.

the literature in many mosques in this country stamped on the back made from saudi arabia. it comes from muslim brotherhood linked groups and i know we're going to talk about the brotherhood. this is rife in the mosques and you talk to these amoms, fred, not in all cases but in many cases, they can't tell you that they recognize israel's right to exist they can't say shari'a is a bad thing for america. and this is a common strain in mosques in this country and real quick, i interviewed a former member of iran's revolutionary guard's corps. this is the elite. the most radical vanguard of iran's regime. he told me, look, we ran operations out of the mosques in europe and the u.s. and i outlined several cases of terrorism arrests, terrorism funding coming from american mosques. >> host: this is the deep cover guy that you talk about in the book. well, the reason i bring it up is because as you probably know,

the chairman of the homeland security committee in the house, peter king, has begun, i think, very gingerly a series of hearings on the radicalization of the american muslim community. and he's been vilified by the press and the organizations that we'll describe in a minute are tearing into him. but in your view, can we understand this threat? can we keep from being deceived without going into these mosques and finding out exactly how deeply involved they are in sedition because that's really what this is. and the last time i looked, that was still a crime. >> sure. you can't have a firm grasp of what's going on in the muslim community, fred, if you don't have a presence. as intelligence, in the mosques, you simply can't. a mosque is the center of the islamic community. and that's a strategy for groups like the muslim brotherhood and that's why you bring up those numbers, fred, we had 1200 mosques just 10 years ago in america. that number has nearly doubled in just 10 years.

it's not a coincidence. the strategy for the saudis for groups like the muslim brotherhood -- and i've seen this. i've been in islamic enclaves throughout the west. build a large, as we call them, mega mosque, multimillion dollar project stretching over several acres, several city blocks, that becomes the center of all the activity for the local community. it's much more just a place of worship. it's a meeting place. in cases it's been a plotting place. a mosque is built many times. the property around the mosque is bought. muslims move into the homes around the mosque. all of a sudden the store fronts and everything is in arabic and you say wow, this neighborhood's changed pretty rapidly and this is the blueprint in europe and you have a self-seg grating enclave within a major western city, not in all cases but this has happened time after timed. i've witnessed it firsthand in great britain, places like sweden where people would never believe there are no go zones

for police in these enclaves in europe and even a place like dearborn in america is developing into that but the hub, the center of activity in each of these cases is, yes, the mosque. >> host: all right. you mentioned that they're going up all over the country. one of the ones that you talk about is the islamic center of murfreesboro, tennessee. we've been fixated on the ground zero mosque in manhattan. large facilities like northern environmental. but this is on 52,000 square feet in a tiny suburb of nashville, all right? why? what -- what is the strategy there because you spend a lot of time talking about this in the book. and this -- you know, aide guy from the defense department when i was going to a briefing on this tell me, this is very much in keeping what mao used to call the war of position. you move through the countryside. you leave deposits of your belief and ideology and infrastructure and by the time

you get to where you want to go, you've essentially got beachheads everywhere you want to be. is that what's going on here in your view? >> guest: i believe absolutely, fr fred. i believe the broad geographic building of the mega mosque building in this country, murfreesboro, tennessee, this is the buckle of the bible belt. alaska broke ground on its first mosque, rural wisconsin, northern kentucky, places you would never expect and the key thing, fred, they have very small muslim communities. murfreesboro, tennessee, i was on the ground at the mosque there's no more than 250 muslim families in the whole area. yet, they are building, as you said, a 52,000 square foot mosque over 15,000 acres of land, multimillion dollar project, absolutely massive. i was there on the ground. saw what they're going to do and there's multiple buildings. why? why do you need such a large structure for such a small community and that's the question in these mega mosque

projects around the country. i've investigated many of them in the book and what is the goal and i've talked to local activists in murfreesboro and they said, look, we feel like they are targeting us because this is kind of the center of the bible belt. nashville is a place where gospel music goes out. bibles are printed and produced. they feel like it is a direct premeditated assault on really the heart of christian america. >> host: if that's true, then why did the city council approve the mosque? is it all dollar and sense or political correctness or a combination of the two. >> guest: great question. i think it's a combination of political correctness and ignorance. i interviewed the mayor of rutherford county, tennessee, where murfreesboro was located. he didn't know the first thing about islam, about the muslim brotherhood. didn't know anything about the funding sources to this mosque because they still have not come clean about where the money is

coming from and that's a common theme in all of these mosques going up. these controversial mosques. they can't tell you where the money is coming from, and i saw the congregation in murfreesboro. this was cab drivers, college students, some professional types. i hate to stereotype but really i didn't see the means to raise millions of dollars. i mean, it just didn't seem like it was there. i say the same thing in a humble church community in dc. i just didn't see it and i asked the imam where is the money coming from? he wouldn't go on camera but he told me it's locally raised. such a small community, not an affluent muslim community, i just don't see it, fred. and you look saudi funding as i said 80% and there must be a bigger force at work here. that's not conspiratorial. it's just the facts. >> host: let's just talk about the saudi money and you point out in the book about 80% of the mosques that are built in this country are probably getting

some kind of infusion of wahh i wahhabiist money, if they're essentially the money people, are the operation people, the communication, the public relation infrastructure, the so-called chief operating officers of this growing infrastructure of the muslim brotherhood, is that fair to say because i want to talk about the muslim brotherhood that you mention in the book but that seems to be part of the threat that we do not acknowledge and won't talk about. >> guest: the saudi provides the money and the brotherhood provides the money. the muslim brotherhood, who is ascendent now in egypt and who may very well gain control in that country in the 1950s, '60s, the egyptian government, where the brotherhood was found, egypt, crackdown killed several brotherhood leaders, arrested them, executed them.

some of the leading men moved to the saudis and from there brotherhood operatives with saudi petrodollars spread out across europe, across america, the mosques were built. the enclaves were created so while the brotherhood and the saudis don't see eye-to-eye on some things without a doubt, they have worked closely in the islamization of the west. >> host: and does that mean that their goal is the complete islamization of the west, whether we're talking about europe or the united states? in other words, they want -- and i don't want to put words in your mouth here. but in the book you indicate that the goal is nothing less than putting the united states or for that matter in the western world which is shari'a law which is antithetical to the way we live our lives. >> guest: not just the west, china, japan. the endgame for islamists, they the muslim brotherhood or al-qaeda or iran, hezbollah,

shia, sunni, it's the end states is a world governed by shari'a. that's their own statements which i outline in the book. the endgame is a world governed by shari'a. they would like to establish what they call a caliphate. >> host: uh-huh. >> guest: that is basically an islamic super state all of the world's muslim's nations gathered in one united bloc to take on the west to take on all infidels and subvert them to the law of shari'a. that's the endgame. it doesn't matter if it's the brotherhood, al-qaeda, that is the shared endgame. they may have different tactics but the endgame is the same. >> host: so let's talk about the means to that end because if the muslim brotherhood is kind of the overarching holding company, if you will, of the strict shari'a ideology, would it be fair to say that some of their tactical units would be organizations like the council on american islamic relations or

the muslim student association or the north american islamic trust? you know he's, obviously, because they're part of the holy land foundation trial proceeding but how much or how little should we trust these organizations because from my experience, they are very astute politically in this country. they know exactly what to say, when to say it and how to take, i think, a legitimate criticism about perhaps a threat and turn it into a slight against a religion and a culture which, of course, gets americans to back off. >> guest: islamophobia. we've heard it since 9/11 time and time again, fred from groups like c.a.r.e. you have to remember about these groups you're naming, the whole alphabet soup of american muslim organizations who purport to be the spokesmen for the islamic society. msa, the muslim students association, all of these groups, fred or at least 95% of them, were named in muslim

brotherhood documents. in the brotherhood's own documents. that's not just me saying that. it's their own documents uncovered by our fbi -- actually, fred just a few minutes where we're sitting in northern virginia outside of dc during a raid in 2004, the fbi uncovered muslim brotherhood documents in northern virginia at the home of a leading american brotherhood operative that named several of these groups who you see on cnn, fox news, msnbc purporting to be spokesmen. they identify them as, quote, our friends. friends of the brotherhood. these are subversive organizations that have no place in american society. >> host: but why? why are they so good at getting deeply -- i mean, i want to talk about the level of infiltration here because this is something that the soviets dreamed of but were never able to bring off. however, the infrastructure in law enforcement and in our courts and in education and in media and now the highest levels of government -- if i'm -- what

you say in the book is true, indicate that there are operatives almost everywhere we turn. how do you get rid of these folks and how do you begin that process because from what i can see, neither party in congress and certainly this administration, nor the previous administration, has done anything but say how can we help? >> guest: sure. number 1, a few things to remember here, fred. how they've been able to insin uate, ingratiate into the halls of power here. they don't look the part. these muslim partnership they are wearing suits and ties they are well-spoken and telegenic they don't look like raving jihadists. their tactics are different than al-qaeda. tactics. the endgame is the same, shari'a, globally here in america. but the tactics the brotherhood is very patient, very stealthy. they will wait 100 years to

attain their goals. al-qaeda wants to blow you up now, kill you now. the brotherhood says, hey, wait a minute we can do this through legal means. we can do this by getting elected. by getting jobs in the educational system, by getting jobs in the media. we can do this legally. the final stage, of course, is violent jihad when they're strong enough. there's a reason, though, that osama bin laden, khalid sheikh mohammed, before they formed al-qaeda, as young men, they were members of the muslim brotherhood, the brotherhood is the gateway to violent jihad. as many young muslims in america are discovering. >> host: you made this point earlier. you talk about the kind of -- the hot jihadists, al-qaeda, hezbollah, al-shabaab, is that kind of a good cop/bad cop scenario now with the muslim brotherhood looking impeccably dressed and well-spoken and the

nicest guy in the room, essentially sitting down with certainly president bush, president clinton and president obama, high levels of the defense department and homeland security saying, look, we just want to help our community help you. and yet at the same time you've got bin laden being killed. and you have people saying, we're winning this war. to me, it seems to be a very subtle subterfuge going on here that makes us think we're winning when it's not true? >> guest: that's absolutely true. the global jihad we're discussing osama bin laden is just one part. al-qaeda still lives and still thrives but you have the likes of the muslim brotherhood, you have the likes of iran and with hezbollah and with the brotherhood in many cases you don't see them coming. if they gain power in egypt it's not only bad for israel their northern neighbor, it's very bad

for their israel, i was in jerusalem, meeting with israeli officials as mubarak was out the door, they're very, very concerned to say the least that egypt will end up in the muslim brotherhood's hand and you need look no further, fred, than the muslim brotherhood's spiritual leader. he's a guy named yousef. i know we're throwing out a lot of names here. he's a big star. he's got the biggest show on al-jazeera. he's the global spiritual leader of the muslim brotherhood. he's a guy who has said we will conquer the west. this is a guy with probably tens of millions adherence who watch his show, muslims, we will conquer the west not through violent jihad through fatwa. we will do it nonviolently through demographics, demographics there and we're

building mosques, we're proselytizing, that's how we're going to conquer the west and that's what they're saying. it's great osama bin laden one of the leaders of the violent wing of the jihadists is gone. it's a great day. but much, much broader than him. much broader than al-qaeda. this administration has tunnel vision. when they talk about the war on terror, i call the war against fascism, islamim, they are talking strictly about al-qaeda. the brotherhood is the granddaddy of them all in terms of islamic terrorist groups and they're only getting stronger and stronger. iran another topic, hezbollah it's so much broader than al-qaeda. >> host: you know, it seems to me that the analogy that might work for people trying to figure out how all the pieces fit is to assume in world war ii if we said, we're at war with romell in terms of hitler, it's fair to say that al-qaeda and hezbollah and al-shabaab and some of the

others that we're learning about, certainly, hamas, which is a direct descendent of hezbollah, are just that, the children, the parent is the muslim brotherhood and yet we continue to focus on the top. ..

any observer of the middle east and egypt new the largest and most organized, most powerful opposition force was the muslim brotherhood. this administration thinks it is not growing anyone up yet. they can work with them and use them against al qaeda. >> host: it wasn't just the administration. if you look at most of the mainstream reporting, you've got a feeling there were kids with blackberries and tahrir square googling and facebooking their way to freedom. the muslim brotherhood from everything i can tell is a very sophisticated political organization. republicans and democrats should be as organized as these guys are. what i'm hearing you say is after the euphoria of the overthrow is over, it's the people on the ground with the organization that will finish the revolution. would you say that's what's going to happen in egypt? i think this revolution in egypt and some degree, to some degree took the brotherhood by surprise

a bit. once they caught on they caught on quickly. these young blackberry toting facebook loving egyptians, god bless them, who started the revolution, they were quickly pushed aside. the strongest, most ruthless force in egypt is the muslim brotherhood. they quickly work through the system. they're getting stronger and stronger. we see reports every day and even "the new york times" who trumpeted this egyptian revelation as a great day for moderation, the great arab spring, even their publishing articles now warning about the rise of radical islam in egypt, cursing of the muslim brotherhood. we're seeing christian churches burnt to the ground, christians attacked. these are the fruits of empowering the muslim brotherhood. he obama administration, i'll never forget a quote a few days after mubarak fill. robert gibbs said we want all parties in egypt involved in the

political process, including andy specifically mentioned this, nonsecular parties. hello, the muslim brotherhood. this is madness. >> host: i want to get into more of your thoughts on the arab spring in the moment but i didn't want to miss the opportunity to find out how a young 25 year old freelance reporter in philly became so involved in domestic terrorism, the pursuit thereof, and stealth or civilization jihad. this is your book of business. this is pretty much all you do not. how did you get from here to there? wasn't 9/11? >> guest: 9/11 was a watershed moment in many of our lives but in my life as well. i started out, first of all, i dedicate the book to my father. my father was a paratrooper for the 101st airborne, that patriot. loves the military, loved his

country. for a kid in northeast philadelphia working class, very interesting dinner conversations about the king david, stalingrad, alexander the great. he was the most well read man i've ever met. he was brilliant. he schooled me on these topics like passion from a young age. >> host: excuse me. well schooled but not an intellectual, right? >> guest: know. my father was actually a high school dropout. self-taught intellectually. ferocious intellectual, a voracious reader. self-made, self taught, an electrician and a factor in philadelphia. but he would come home, read, converse. he lived and breathed this stuff. when 9/11 rolled around i was covering sports on the next basketball player, i was covering the nba. i was living in new york a few months before 9/11. long story short, sportswriting

didn't do it for me. i was kind of searching. i had a passion for the subject matter, 9/11 happened and long story short, i threw everything i could on 9/12. i bought a car wrong. first rules of war, know you're in the. our and no citing the crime for their action. i wish more minutes of our political class on both sides of the isle did the same thing but sadly they have and i immerse myself. i studied it intensively. devouring everything i could get my hands on and add to the point where i said i'm a journalist, i'm a writer, ready to throw my hat into ring. david owen was a great patriot gave me my first shot. it's been a fun i opening ride. >> host: you have to admit you are a small elite group of journalists michael after this big there is you, david horowitz, maybe a few others. but you are a tiny coalition, up

against a huge journalistic failings that says not a problem. not a problem. the problem with guys, they come from a position of intolerance. and yet one of the things i noticed in this book is nothing that you say is not backed up by facts. in many cases it's backed up by versus within the koran. this has got to be frustrating for somebody like you, for somebody who's been on this case for 10 years and in many ways were further away from understanding our enemy following what you said, the steps we have to do. >> guest: fred, you just summed it up. we live in the greatest nation, and a great civilization in history of mankind. america. and also judeo-christian western civilization. there's such shame on the part of western man, such killed.

we have oppressed the muslim world. we are the imperialist colonialist aggressor. we have oppressed muslims throughout the world. we have been a force for evil throughout the world. that is the mainstream line of thought running at least to the political left and many of our elite institutions, universities, even our government, mainstream media. and had to make a blanket statement but i've seen it, i'm in washington, d.c. in the halls of power and they see this self-loathing for western civilization. there's an attraction for anything that is not western. so there's a natural sympathy with islam. their victims. the palestinians are victims of the western-style israelis. that is a strain running through, and young people, they're being taught, not a revisionist american history but revisionist islamic history in our schools, in public schools and universities. there's a lot of confusion.

there's a lack of pride, and lack of sense, and lack of self-worth in western man now, and great britain as outlined in the book, i have an entire chapter a cautionary tale, and great britain is the center of this western suicide. >> host: bernard lewis reno the islamic scholar has said that europe will probably be islamist us by the end of the century. do you buy into that? are they moving with that kind of momentum? >> guest: so rapidly and i think bernard lewis might of been too conservative. i can see in great britain people will say you're crazy, this is alarming. no, it's not just me saying this. leading scholars have did -- have said this, by the 2050 web self segregated muslim enclaves that are living outside of british common law and we're already seeing it. there's some 87 sharia courts functioning right now in great

britain outside of british common law. there are no go zones in that country where police do not venture. this is great britain. i can tell you, winston churchill is turning in his great. >> host: i saw a report that indicated there are no less than 50 sharia cases currently in american courts. most of them having to do with custody laws and family law, but nonetheless that's a pretty shocking statistic for a country that supposedly says through the sixth amendment, the supreme court will be the spring law of the land. how could that coexist with sharia? >> guest: people don't know this is going on under the radar screen. it's great you mentioned that. it starts out in marital disputes. the divorce court type thing. i want to divorce my wife, my husband, god forbid beats me. that's how it started in great britain. you haven't imam or a tribal elder and one of the pillars of the muslim neighborhood in great

britain or sweden or france, basically acting as judge and jury, literally handing down rulings for married couples in the west among muslim couples in the west, acting outside of the law of this country. and it happens very slowly but when you have linen called useful idiots in a clinical class, and i think of the archbishop a few years ago who said we are going to have to accept sharia law in muslim communities. the top christian authority in great britain saying this, giving sharia and okay to act outside of british common law. we have people like that imposition of authority, it don't hastens the downfall. the american people are completely in the dark, in many cases do not know this is going on. if they did their be outraged and that's why i wrote the book. >> host: we have a raptor in a community was talking to my wife about this when she was talking to them about the interfaith

counseling that is going on and she said what about the muslim brotherhood? what about some of the assaults against coptic christians in egypt and elsewhere? and reaction was, from an episcopal priest, well, it's their time. i mean, the willful blindness, and this is your term, and a book to me is what may and do this country. if something catastrophic happens here, we will be accessories after the fact, if not full coconspirators "the terrorist next door" if history books are written 50 years from now, 75 years from now, they will look back on this generation and curse this generation, shake their fist at us for what we didn't do as this threat was rising. to just accept this, to acquiesce to this rights of jihadists islam, to suicide. i talk about the political left specific, they don't know who they are getting in bed with. they really don't know how

ruthless these guys are, how hateful, how violent they are. yet i go to congressman and hearings, every single -- i was there. every single democrat on the panel be righted hearings as a witch hunt, anti-islamic. they're reading from the same talking points. >> host: we hang with the same crowd guarantee we do. but 1979, for it, talk about another cautionary tale. the iranian revolution, when the ayatollah khamenei came to power, one of the watershed moments of modern history in a bad way, he was helped by the socialists, communists, the marxists, they elect in iran. they were behind the ayatollah. he's going to bring democracy and change to iran. the first thing he did when he came to power about three months after, lying dead, rounded up all the left, all the socialists

in iran, hadn't even thrown in jail or executed. so it's a cautionary tale, a word of warning for the left when you're going to bat for sharia islam, you don't know what your getting into. >> host: let me go back to the arab spring, a term i voice been suspect of i want to take three countries, egypt, a rant that you just mentioned and, of course, is a bit as you look at what is unfolding, serving to the north and now to the south of israel, is this beginning of an arab spring for a long islamic winter in your view? >> guest: i think it is the latter, but. if you look at each of these countries affected by the so-called arab spring, the biggest most likely beneficiary our islam this. egypt of the muslim brotherhood. in libya that the brotherhood and al qaeda types. in syria we don't know. i personally would not be sad to see the regime go by there is a worry about the muslim brotherhood gaining power in syria. bahrain, you have i run

benefiting. so in each of the situation, except tunisia which is pretty generally moderate, but facing some islamist stirrings. in each of these countries the most likely beneficiary our islam is there so you could see i think even it sounds crazy, but a push for a renewed caliphate if you see a islamist forces, to about and all of these countries in the middle east. you can see a push for unity. and i can tell you, i ran for one is looking to unify the muslim world against israel first, america's second. america is the ultimate price. >> host: in the book first you talk the saudi people than the sunday people. the saturday people would be the israelis, the. but what is the future of israel under this scenario, and specifically if you are benjamin netanyahu right now, are you at a point where you have to pull the trigger first? because if he does you know what

the world reaction will be. >> guest: if he does, if it's an offensive operation or defensive operation, the world reaction will be outraged, perhaps even sanctions. >> host: including this country track of including this country. after 2012 if president obama is reelected, post-2012 he would have nothing holding them back from carrying out his full fury against israel. this is a man who, in my opinion, it's not just a penny, from looking at his policies and looking at his posture when he was sitting with netanyahu in the oval office, this is a man who does not like israel. there is a visceral dislike. i want to go back to your question about israel pulling the trigger first. with iran, yes. israel is facing an existential threat. this administration will not

strike iran military. i don't see any scenario under which they would do that. they should because i'm not a warmonger i don't want another war. we are already tied up in iraq, afghanistan and for some reason libya. but the only way to stop iran is with clear military force. sanctions are great but at the end of the day they are not going to work. at the end of the day iranian regime is motivated by, again, an ideology. it's a messianic ideology. they truly believe and they will shape policy around this, the iranian government truly believe that they can punish in the end times. >> host: this would be the 12th? >> guest: that goes by various names. he is the islamist must live. this all sounds crazy i know but they really believe this. the likes of ahmadinejad. they believe that if they strike out against israel, if they acquire nuclear weapons, if

there's a ton of great global chaos and a people which are seeing right now with this arab spring, they believe that can hasten the return of the islamist messiah who believed lead them to victory over israel and the west. so acquiring nuclear weapons is part of that divine plan. nothing will deter them or dissuade them from this goal. they believe it is divinely sanctioned from a lot -- from a lot. they will use those weapons. one of the precursors of the return of the islamist messiah, i don't -- one of the precursors is conquering jerusalem. that's one of the precursors in this insane system, belief system of this iranian regime. >> host: one of the arguments of course as always, from the palestinian community. if you just make an equitable division of israel, everything will be fine. but, of course, there was no israel prior to 1948.

and the islamist revolution goes back to the year 700 a.d. so what about the 700 years in between where there was a small amount of violence. most of the middle east. >> guest: you made such a great point. no one mentions this. right and israel is blind for all of our ills. al qaeda wants to blow us up because of israel, because we support the jews. if only israel would give more land and even give up their nuclear programs some say, they were like a nuclear free middle east. if only israel basically would cease to defend itself, then we would have peace. the islamist will leave us alone here in the west. from the year 632 a.d. where islam, when islam roared out of the arabian peninsula until the year 1948 when israel was miraculously i believe reestablished, gosh, 1400 years, a long period, we saw wave after wave after wave of islam is

conquest and jihad against the west. israel did not exist during this period, yet we saw spain, sicily, greece, the balkans, romania, conquered by islam us. we saw them drive into central france. we saw them get to the gates of vienna twice. this had nothing to do with israel, and nothing to do with jews. israel is the canary in a coal mine in this fight, the first line of defense for western civilization. >> host: its talk about the defense of western civilization, and you end your book this way and i want to end the interview this would. a lot of people read this and say what can i do? what can i do as a citizen? what can my government do? give us some suggestions as to if somebody to takes this book up and says oh, my god, what's my role in this? what is it? >> we were talking before the show. we talked about these issues a lot. it's always the question we get.

i traveled the country giving speeches. number one, please i employer, get informed. you don't have to be an islam expert. by the book. but you don't have to be an islam expert. you don't have to be a political junkie. but daniel ipad, turn off again. 15, 20 minutes a day. get informed on what's going on in the world. you owe it to yourself, your kids and your grandkids. monument is tremendous changes are happening right now in the muslim world that you need to know about. as i describe in the book it is in your back yard. >> host: if you just read conventional media you're going to get that impression that this is the data from generations of imperialism. how do you get around that? you want to read "the terrorist next door" the wet places people can go to educate themselves? >> guest: thank god for the web. there is a site called jihad watch.org. it's an incredible reap -- resource. jihad watch.org. drudge report is a great site by

highly recommend just off the top of my head, jihad watch.org. join with like-minded people. you have social media. you can find people who are concerned about this jihadi islamist threat. think of the tea party, grassroots. acts for america is a very good crew. very good group that is devoted to this jihad is sharia threat. "atlas shrugged," great site. get with like-minded people. get in your congressman, you're federal, local, state, federal officials, get in there is. make your voice heard. i am here in d.c. i can play when you flood the offices with phone calls, there's a mosque being built down the street that is not a peaceful mosque. it is peddling muslim brotherhood saudi literature. getting your congressman's ear about that. >> host: let me ask you about pressuring congress because they seem to at least be very slow taking up this issue.

peter king not withstanding. you talk about organizations like care or any these groups that are affiliates, subdivisions of the muslim brotherhood. why are the legal and what are they getting tax exempt status and why aren't americans able to put those questions to member of congress who have the complete jurisdiction over the tax code and tax-exempt status, and saying why are we indirectly funding terrorism if we are giving money to care which raises money for hamas? >> guest: this is the million-dollar question. not only under this administration but under the bush administration. the last administration. why are these groups even legal? the two largest most influential muslim brotherhood fronts in america. the largest tears and financing trial in american history, the holy land foundation trial 200 2007-2008, you can find all the documents, the results of it. but both of these groups were

named as unindicted co-conspirators in the largest care financing trial and the american history. they haven't opened their to our white house. they are advising the fbi on sensitivity training for the muslim community. this is the fox inside and out's. >> host: did write about a guy who was at fort hood about two weeks after nidal hasan advising kind of caution? this guy is a member of the muslim brotherhood? >> guest: he is a leading official which is an acknowledged muslim brotherhood front. and a month after the fort hood shootings, he lectured on islam. u.s. troops at fort hood. you can't make this up drama if and what al-awlaki had begun and in congress after 9/11, you have to ask yourself who's watching the store. but again, it seems to me that americans need to wake up to what this is. it is difficult because there

seems to be pushed back from their elected representatives, local, national and even law enforcement. why is that? has the infiltration become so successful that there's no kind of a bedrock of islamists who are inside our infrastructure, government, media and education? >> guest: it is so deep, and it's a lack of intellectual curiosity in a lot of cases. a simple google search could give you information about the ties of these muslim brotherhood front groups. if you google it you will find everything you need to know. yet apparently our government officials and federal gosh mom in many cases federal law enforcement officials are not doing that background research, are not exercising their due diligence. in many cases the sad fact is they just don't think the muslim brotherhood is a great threat. tunnel vision. al qaeda, violent jihad.

muslim brotherhood, not so bad. >> host: it occurred to me if the muslim brotherhood is as powerful, they should be illegal itself. but secondarily, if they are essentially underwriting sedition in this country which is an unlawful black, white chemical after them using the same statutes, rocketing and otherwise that we went after organized crime? clearly this is an organization to produce a greater threat than the mafia or john guide for any of those, and yet even those those racketeering statutes are in place, no one is talking about it, why not? >> guest: a legitimate way to go after them. the holy land foundation trial, we are on the right track but nobody is moving on this. the department of justice, our friend patrick just broke a major story about a month ago. this department of justice, erick holder, threw out some cases against muslim brotherhood operatives here in america. threw them out the window and

said we will not pursue. wide? drama i want to close this out by going back to your bed because it seems to me one of the things that may be competing with our ability to fully understand this threat is there aren't enough guys like your dad anymore. there aren't enough people who fight for this country, were received well when he came back or perhaps even had to deal with adverse politics. is about to? always missing a generation now who have perhaps so enshrined of freedom that we don't appreciate what they thought in war for? >> guest: i'm 35 years old. i was raised right as they say. i have a strong family unit, strong family, nothing was handed to me. and today there's a sense of entitlement in this country and of so many distractions. videogame, internet, text messaging, everything. people are not as ground. you and i are sitting here

face-to-face, fred. sometimes someone will be across the office, across the classroom instead of talking, text messaging. who has the time to sit down and read the koran? who has the attention span to do it? one word of encouragement at least come i traveled the country and i talk a lot of times to you and people and i've seen this younger generation coming up. i've seen definite glimmers of hope. these kids are crowded, starting to get it. a word of encouragement before i go. there is so. not hope in change but there's genuine hope. >> host: one of the group of want to get to before we finish, women. it seems to me if anybody has a vested interest in keeping sharia law from becoming at least coexist in with our present statutes it would be them, you agree? >> guest: absolutely. what about feminist? where are the feminists on this? i have a wife and two daughters and i'm doing this for them.

>> host: one of the places you can start is reading "the terrorist next door." erick stakelbeck, thank you for what you are doing and keep up the fight. >> guest: thank you. i really appreciate it, fred. i really do. >> that was "after words," booktv signature program and which offers and related non-fiction books are interviewed. "after words" airs every weekend on the tv at 10 p.m. on saturday, 12 and 9 p.m. on sunday and 12 a.m. on monday. you can also watch "after words" online. go to booktv.org and click on afterwards in the booktv series on the upper right side of the page. >> what are you reading this summer, booktv wants to know.

>> tell us what you are reading this summer. send us a tweet at booktv. >> you can find out about upcoming booktv weekend programs like "in depth" by using your mobile phone. simply text the word book to 997 zero two to receive a weekly e-mail about our schedule and sign-up now for a chance received a signed copy of linda hogan's book, the people of the whale. standard message rates apply. the next three hours is your chance to speak with chickasaw author and poet linda hogan. ..